I’ve seen it! The devastation of street gangs in a city. We’ve picked up kids on a bus from a housing project, only to have to run a separate bus a hundred yards down the street to pick up kids from a rival project. It would be so simple to combine these routes. However, there are too many fights and divisions on the bus. The division is over hate which has no reasoning behind it.
I often wonder how a few yards can separate communities that should share so much in common. Both communities could rally together concerning fighting poverty or better schools but instead the fight is over something small and meaningless. Kids are raised in camps taught to despise and divide. Usually, it’s over some small beef that took place years ago which simply lingered. Gang division destroys generations.
But there’s something worse. Church gangsters. People fighting over methods and strategy. Blogging about what they don’t like in a minister or ministry based on certain doctrine. It’s the same attitude of Bloods and Crips, raising up a group of people to divide and usually it’s over method, style, or someone else’s success. We should be rallying about Jesus dying on the cross for mankind and cleansing us from our sins. Repentance and confession that lead to salvation.
My heart breaks as I see this play out. The conflicts of street life have entered the church. Pastor, that comparison is too extreme? No, it’s not. People die over this, leave the church, live bitter or angry all in the name of being right or more spiritual than the other group.
A kid was coming to our church. For the first time in his life he was on fire. He found a home in the church. His mother pulled him out of church because we had guitars in worship and wore jeans. The boy never went to church again and we lost him to the world. Street gang thuggery at its finest.
It’s time that we rally around eternal life and what we agree on. Even if we disagree on some things, how in the world is picking on someone who disagrees with you on theology going to change anyone?
It’s time we agree on the important things and leave the gangs of religious camps. The worst thing about arguing over non-essential differences is all the time that could have been used making a difference. I know many people find comfort in their little camp of “Believing their right” but it’s damaging, it hurts people, and has got to stop. Gang mentality amongst ministries might be worse than street gangs because we know the Bible and should know better.
It’s time that the church refuses to “Conform to the world” of gang culture and be famous for our incredible unity on essentials not random things that have no eternal value. Let’s turn in our rags of spiritual camps and come together and change the world.
I think i just scared our downstairs neighbors with all my hootin and hollering over here! No wonder you’re
Wow! This post is a sad but true portrayal of what has started happening more and more in the church. Really encourages me to stay focused on essentials and get rid of nonessentials that cause division. Inspired, real talk!
God created the ‘pack’ mentality for dogs, not humans. Having watched & experienced gang related church wars, I can attest to the bullying, abuse, & destruction being devastating…to not only believers but the non-believer observers. Street violence has nothing on church members with too much power & a perfect place to hide. Jesus was ‘hardcore’ about the reality of sin within the Church – so should we be! Thanks!
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Thanks for a great perspective. You described the small minded attitudes of the ego-driven gangsters and some in the church. Unfortunately, much of that ego sits on the shoulders of church leadership. My prayer is that churches will unite under the authority of Jesus Christ to do the work He calls us to do. May God continue to bless you and the awesome job you are doing.
Unfortunately so true… just as gangs divide neighborhoods; opinions and judgement is dividing the Church. Great post!!
Preach it brotha!
It’s good message Pastor! – exactly what Holyspirit instructs through 1 Corinthians 13/1-3 …. can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, ….,but do not have love, I gain nothing.
So True! Paul constantly wrote Timothy to stay away from meaningless debates because it’s just not worth it. As the church we can become so caught up with fighting each other that we lose the fight for sin & souls! I come from a family very much influenced in gangs (my parents met in one) only to see first hand that the love is not genuine it’s conditional to only what they say & do. We can’t be a conditional loving Church serving an unconditional loving God!
What is the matter with concerns over proper doctrine, isn’t that what we tell people we believe? If doctrine is whatever you want, then we have no beliefs. (a codification of beliefs or a body of teachings or instructions, taught principles or positions, as the body of teachings in a branch of knowledge or belief system.)
Hmmm…seems to me that the Bible itself commands pastors and elders in the church to do the very thing that you’re complaining about.
An overseer “must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it.
For there are many who are insubordinate, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision party. They must be silenced, since they are upsetting whole families by teaching for shameful gain what they ought not to teach. One of the Cretans, a prophet of their own, said, “Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.” This testimony is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, not devoting themselves to Jewish myths and the commands of people who turn away from the truth.” (Titus 1:9–14)
So those folks you’re calling ‘gangsters’, God’s word calls faithful and obedient overseers.
“The worst thing about arguing over non-essential differences is all the time that could have been used making a difference.”
I wouldn’t call modalism, the false teaching that sowing money into a WF ministry puts God in a position where He must give you back more, that Jesus didn’t finish the atonement on the Cross as He had to fight Satan in hell, and Jesus was a “born again man,” non-essential.
I work in a Christian ministry and I see too many church refugees because of this very thing.
To Chris Rosebrough – interesting choice of verses. Christ set the example of reserving His harshest words for the Pharisee leaders and grace for the sheep. I don’t believe the verses you quoted nullify that pattern, but they are an incomplete picture, paint without a canvas.
Donna,
The passage clearly says to rebuke those who teach false doctrine. Either a pastor is rightly handling God’s word are preaching the true Jesus and the true Gospel or he isn’t.
As for Church refugees, I talk with them daily and the refugees I speak with have been driven from their churches because their pastors aren’t teaching the Word of God but are too busy entertaining goats and ‘casting vision’ (neither method is approved by God’s word but are in fact contrary to it).
Chris,
I agree the passage says that, but it is only part of the picture. After listening to your broadcast I have to wonder if your breed of sarcasm is at all constructive – but perhaps it isn’t meant to be. Do you ever wonder if it contributes to the division and deconstruction of the church by exposing it to further ridicule? Wouldn’t those on the outside of the faith looking in hear that and say, “They aren’t any different than CNN”? It is our love that distinguishes us, not our scorn.
I believe that the original message is being taken out of context. I believe he is talking about how churches are not combining together for the correct word and teachings of God. I believe that he is saying that it is sad that churches or the different types of church are changing it to suit their needs in that community. You just made his point :)
Donna,
Sorry but I want people to know that I have no fellowship with heretics. And that is not setting a bad or worldly example. That is setting an example that says that truth matters and that those who are twisting God’s word and telling people what they want to hear rather than preaching the truth are sending themselves and their hearers to hell.
It’s very telling that you admit that’s what the ‘text says’ but act as if you know better than God the Holy Spirit what that really means.
Yet scripture is consistent on this topic. The LOVING thing to do is rebuke and separate. Here’s more passages that teach the same idea.
“And this is love, that we walk according to his commandments; this is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, so that you should walk in it. For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist. Watch yourselves, so that you may not lose what we have worked for, but may win a full reward. Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.” (2 John 1:6–11)
“I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them.” (Romans 16:17)
“But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.” (Galatians 1:8–9)
“As for you, brothers, do not grow weary in doing good. If anyone does not obey what we say in this letter, take note of that person, and have nothing to do with him, that he may be ashamed.” (2 Thessalonians 3:13–14)
In other words, the UNLOVING thing to do is pretend like sound doctrine is a personal preference and it really doesn’t matter what a person believes or teaches.
Here’s my 2 cents. Years ago, my mother, being Catholic and I, an Assemblies of God, used to have debates over what was true doctrine and the true church. It became personal and got to the point where we no longer felt comfortable around each other. Satan was loving it. I decided to be the wiser and no longer debate such issues with her, since they were causing such grief. Instead, I began to focus on loving her, respecting her as my mother and seeing her for her wonderful loving spirit. I made a switch from debating to spreading God’s love, kindness, Patience, etc. to all others as well.
One day, a few years later, my mother invited me to join her in a ministry, Kairos Outside. In this ministry, women from many Christian denominations worked together to love the hurting wives and girlfriends of incarcerated men. Together, we all worked very hard towards one mission, and it was beautiful, awesomely inspiring.
There was one rule…you did not discuss, judge or question the chosen Christian faiths of other members. In this ministry all that mattered was that you believed in helping those that were suffering. I believe that is the message Pastor Matthew is trying to express. As a whole body of Christ, we can do SO MUCH MORE beautiful works than criticizing and judging each others’ beliefs, because face it…THERE IS NOT ONE TRUE PERFECT CHRISTIAN RELIGION ON EARTH AND THERE WON’T BE UNTIL CHRIST RETURNS AND UNIFIES THE CHURCH.
Of course, you should reject the works and teachings of Satan, but would I pull my son out of a Christian based church that decides to wear jeans on Sunday and play guitars? Seriously???
Did you not hear of the day Jesus healed the sick on the Sabbath Day?
Jeanette,
There’s only one small teensie problem with your idea. It doesn’t square with God’s Word. Please see the passages I’ve already posted here. You will not be able to square your ideas with them.
Those passages teach that Sound/Pure Doctrine is knowable, in fact its mandatory to know it and false doctrine is to be rebuked and repudiated.
So if I had to choose between your religious ideas and what God’s Word clearly says, then I’d have to go with God’s Word while point out the fact that you’ve got a big problem because your opinion is 180 degrees the opposite of God’s.
The Protestant Reformation was about the Gospel, that is not a non-essential. Nothing has changed since then.
The Church of Rome has never rescinded it’s condemnation of the Biblical doctrine of salvation by God’s grace alone, through faith alone, in the finished work of Christ alone on the Cross.
If that doesn’t matter to you, I suggest you take the test of 2 Corinthians 13:5.
Dearest Chris, as a faithful Christian, of course there are specific truths we hold, and any teachings far from it we reject. There are basic fundamental bible based teachings every Christian should uphold. The rest is man’s interpretations.
Yes, there are “Christians” who are practicing abominable things. We need to rebuke them and with Love, show them the Way, the Truth and the Light. If they continue to walk in darkness, then, yes, we have to steer away from them.
To reiterate, what I feel in my heart the Pastor is saying here is we Christians need to put down our fight to be right, put aside man’s long time battle of whose interpretation of the Bible is correct, and instead to give Agape Love to all, specifically the sick (which could be physically, emotionally or spiritually), the elderly, the widows and the orphans.
We must walk in Love, and not Judgement. Enough of battling doctrines, the world is coming to an end and there isn’t any more time to argue doctrine. Instead, we should do everything in our power to plant the seeds of Love, help the roots to grow and see God’s plan flourish.
Jeanette,
Not only is your position unBiblical, its self-defeating.
Do you expect me to really believe you when you’re guilty of the very thing you’re arguing against.
Here’s what you said “we Christians need to put down our fight to be right”. But you believe you and your pastor are “right” and fighting for your view. That’s cheating and self-defeating.
God the Holy Spirit, commands us to judge those inside the church. Here’s one of many I could provide. “Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”” (1 Corinthians 5:12–13)
And one more thing, Christians are NOT Jedi. We do not ‘reach out with our feelings’ nor do we make decisions based on what we feel in our heart. Jesus described what comes out of our hearts, “For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander.” (Matthew 15:19) The heart is the LAST place you’re gonna want to go looking for truth. Open up your Bible and turn on your brain.
Jeanette,
Thank you for your tender heart and eagerness to love. For all his positioning, I am sorry to see that love is the one issue Chris consistently skirts. I appreciate how you found a way to be at peace with your mother, in so far as it depended on you. That kind of reconciliation can, and obviously has, borne much fruit. God bless you!
1 Samuel 16:7 “But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the HEART.”
Thank you, Donna. You have a Christ-like spirit.
Thank you, Pastor, for trying to unify people to work towards a very valuable and precious cause obviously blessed by God Jehovah.
Thank you, Chris, for showing us exactly why the Pastor wrote the blog.
Jeremiah 17:9-10 “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? I the LORD search the HEART, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the FRUIT OF HIS DOINGS.”
Amen.
Matthew, you’re right, picking on someone doesn’t change anyone. First and foremost I believe that God would want us to show His love to others. Thanks for reposting this, I believe it was much needed.
Dear people of God, I am pleading with you to help us, We need help to help Gods people the down trodden, the helpless, and the homeless of the world. The only way we can do the work that God has called us to do is that you do what he has called you to do….Please give to the work of the Lord that we are doing here in Los Angeles,CA.
May God Continue to Bless you.
Ms. Hamilton
Multiple comments here prove the pastor’s point-we would rather quote scripture and tailor it to our needs, than to reach out and just offer love. We condemn, judge, validate….yes, Jesus may have done that but we aren’t Jesus. In fact, he commanded us not to judge and one of the seven things Solomon wrote that God detests is those who cause division. We are commanded to love our neighbor. If what you preach is so harsh it does not exemplify love, if what you preach causes the lost to remain lost, you are not fulfilling the comandment to spread the GOOD NEWS. Thank you pastor for preaching to the choir. We need it!!
Everyone should learn from jonathan martinez, he is so right! I agree w/ pastor MATEO Barnetto.
Love you Pastor Barnett! The religious will never understand… If Jesus couldn’t get to them, no one will. The gospel is for those who want to see God.
As Paul States: 1 Corinthians 1:10 I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought.
So all the naysayers can read this scripture above and be held accountable for your attempt to divide the church even more. There is such a thing as tolerance with multiple denominations and showing respect for each ministry. We will all answer to Christ. So examine yourself and not others. Make peace not war, for we are all serving the same Lord. I pray God reveals peace on all those who spew dissension and division amongst the church. In Jesus name.
I get it and have observed first hand how some so called teachers can cause division among groups. A subsitute bible study leader came in and took up our valuable time bashing our church and even some parts of the bible. Really is this what the holy spirit led you to say to us? It caused division in our group and we eventually split and I know that he had something to do with it. Don’t we have enough of a challenge strengthening our own understanding and relationship with God? Do we really need to pay attention to what others and taking things out of context to make themselves look better, smarter more holy? I could go on and on…..
Very well stated and my husband & I could not agree more. God bless you and continue to expand His work and His influnce through you and the Dream Center.
Words of true wisdom. You have not said one word that I disagreed with since I started attending AT. Thank you for all you do for the community!
Wow what a debate we had going here for awhile. I would like to say that the Bible also says that what is wrong for one may not be wrong for someone else and if you are comfortable eating everything but your brother is not, then do not sin against your brother by eating meat in front of him. The Bible teaches us to have holy love for our brothers in Christ whose beliefs aren’t hurting the Gospel of God, but rather holds true to ones own personal convictions. In a situation like this we are to walk in so much love that we put our own beliefs aside and honor that person while they are in our presence. Pastor Matthew I love you and your heart and am so grateful that I can come in contact with this ministry of hope and love even it is is only financially right now. I love Gods people, true lovers of God are true lovers of the brethren and we do come in many different flavors but what matters is that the truth of God’s love as manifested through the teachings, death, and resurrection of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is not hindered. Let God be true and every man a liar. We are all at his mercy and will be judged by his word on judgement day. We are responsible for rightly dividing the word of God, lets not misuse his word to spread hate. Searching our hearts and our motives and humbling ourselves before the throne of God will straighten us out when we need it. If we are above this then we may very well be standing in Gods judgement rather than those we so harshly judge. I stand in judgment of myself on a constant basis so that I may not sin against him. If we all understood this principle then the body of Christ would look more like the Savior then the world in which we live. God bless everyone, I hope we all find our true calling in him and walk that out in divine love for the Brethren and for God. For without love we truly are nothing and are of no value to the Great Commission!
I REALLY AGREE ANDLOVE WHAT YOU WROTE. CHURCH BANGERS!! NAH HOMEY!